If I say I'm "done," I worry that most listeners translate that into modern usage meaning 'I'd rather eat glass than have another child!" (as one woman actually said to a mother of eight). Of course, I try to avoid getting into discussions of my family planning, but it seems to be considered a topic of general interest in today's world.
Why should others' misinterpretation be a source of anxiety? Because we were always told that having many children was a witness to the world. Obviously you wouldn't want to tell The World that you're done having God's blessings.
Now that I'm revisiting the question anew, I wonder: maybe God isn't more honored by six children than by four. And if those six children are birthed due to a philosophy of bondage that leaves a couple feeling as if they have no choice in the matter -- there's very little honor to God in that case.
It seems that God calls some families to show the blessedness of children in an out-of-the-ordinary way. Darren and I are very fortunate to know some large families (by which I mean eight to twelve children). These families are amazing -- the parents are amazing -- and when I'm with them I find myself thinking, "I could do this!" But the fact is, I don't think I could. Theirs is a special calling, like those who are called to the mission field and those who are called to work among the poor. We all can spread God's word, help the poor, and have families; but some are given an extra measure to go the extra mile.
It's not a good idea to hold these large families up as the ideal that we're all reaching for. Quiverfull, I'm looking at you.
-- SJ
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First I love this post. It's a very specific look at what it means to be a family, without having to suggest that a family must be a certain size.
ReplyDeleteI think everyone woman knows what she can and cannot handle, and to say "this is my limit" is a smart move. If you believe that God is one of divine intervention, that's who's to say that he's not intervening by telling you "I am content with ''x'' number of children, now is a good time to stop"?!?!?!
Having a knowledge of your own self, your own body, your own personal comfort it a blessing in itself. Knowing you are sick so you take the day off to rest is a smart thing. Knowing you have a long day coming up so you go to bed early is a smart thing. Knowing that having children without a limit may not be a smart thing, and you should be comfortable with that sense of self.
You know the story of the man who gets tossed into the sea, and he's expecting God to save him. He turns down a life boat, a safety ring, a ladder from a plane all the while saying "God will save me". Finally the man dies and goes to heaven and says to God "why didn't you save me?" - God replied "I tried too, I sent a life boat, a life preserver and a ladder. You didn't let me save you".
When it comes to children, could you argue after 10 kids... I wanted to stop but I thought God wanted me to have more, and in the end the voice says "I made you content with 4, you didn't listen".
Just a thought, as if we all knew what the answers were, why would we ask the questions?
Mollie
Mollie, that's an interesting perspective. I'm just starting to get to the point in which I think that God can guide me through my 'feelings' or my 'gut' or whatever. It's not so much about children for me right now as it is about the bigger concept that, as a person in the process of being transformed into Christ's likeness, it is even possible for some of my thoughts, feelings, and self-perceptions to be correct. It's very hard though after years if not decades of being taught that anything you think or feel is automatically wrong by default, just because you are human. So it's interesting for me to see you apply a similar concept to the perceptions of one's own limits and contentedness in childbearing. Because you know, the Quiverfull would just say that your own perception of your limits is simply a lack of trust, since God will never give you more than you can handle, and He is giving you child after child, so obviously you can handle it even if you don't think so. So much guilt and serious burnout or worse waiting to happen for those who really can't...
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of the general comment of "you don't get mre than you can handle", I think of the moms who drown their kids and plead insanity... or the moms who loses it in the parking lot, and goes off yelling and screaming and slapping their child who won't get in the seat belt, and then 50 people going on the band wagon saying "how dare she abuse those kids", when they don't have any idea of what led up to that point.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading in a parenting magazine (about 7 years ago) this article by a mom who said, after a car ride full of a crying baby, the silence between getting out of the car and closing the dirver's side door was the most peace she had that day. I recall thinking WHAT? HOW CRAZY! Then one drive home, my infant son screamed and cried at the top of his lungs. The silence between the closing of the car door when I steped outside that continued to walking around the car and up until opening the door to a continually screaming child was not something I enjoyed... but I understood what that mom meant.
I can't say I haven't had days where the silence of my child is more enjoyable than his laugh or the sound of his voice, but if you've hit that point as a parent - you appreciate what you can and cannot handle as a parent.
I don't know much from the Quiverful concept other than what Sara has shared with me, but being content in your own self seems very "thankful" to God for knowing what you can and cannot handle as one person. (just my .02)
Mollie
I love this post too. I also love what Dana and Mollie have articulated - I just found your post, SJ, on your family blog that linked to this new endeavor, and I'm so, so glad you're exploring this. We have three kids and already we're getting pressure from church folk and the conservative circles we tend to run in as well as the (possible) unspoken expectation that if one is a Christian of a certain nature in certain circles, Quiverfull should at least be a consideration.
ReplyDeleteI guess what's so confusing/obnoxiously hidden to me is: we can never be 100% sure what we're doing is what God wants for us...I just don't know where to draw the line Biblically with our family and its size. Hearing all your perspectives is a HUGE blessing as we are struggling with this too. Four kids I can see, and I do think I might want one more. Five seems less awesome, and anything higher than that makes me break out in hives and a cold sweat. ;-)
Kudos to Sara for starting this blog. (applause, applause)
ReplyDeleteMollie
Wow, I somehow missed your QF posts! I posted on it once at my blog too. I'd say our quiver is full, but I had no problem spacing our pregnancies for mental and physical health. I'm not the most organized person in the world, so managing seven individuals beside myself is a real challenge for me, as blessed as I consider myself. So, I think we're complete, since we went at least two better than we thought we would. :) But, like with y'all, it *could* happen again, and I would welcome that baby with open arms too.
ReplyDeleteI've gotten into long (long, LONG) discussions on this topic on other forums, and upset some QF folks without meaning to...and, well, in my case it seems to come down to a difference in theology. I'm not a Calvinist, for one thing, and I think that has a lot to do with it. Maybe I could flesh out my thoughts on it here at your blog sometime. In the meantime, here's what I wrote about it 'way back when.
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/SusannahCox/342763/
Ha, I found another "large family" post as well, although it doesn't go into as much detail.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.homeschoolblogger.com/SusannahCox/180232/
Susannah - Thank you for the links. I was hoping more moms-of-many would weigh in. Both posts have a lot to think about; I haven't had time to pull some of my favorite quotes. Welcome to the discussion!
ReplyDelete-- SJ
I'm pretty sure Amy at Amy's Humble Musings has posted on this as well.
ReplyDeleteYep!
http://humblemusings.com/?p=656
http://humblemusings.com/?p=1343
I saw a preview for a new book out called "blessings for enough" and I thought it seemed appropriate to this conversation. While I don't know the details of the book (it was written by a Rabbi) it just caught my eye as I wonder if people view blessings in the form of enough.
ReplyDeletePeople can say "We have no money for new shoes this month, but we have enough. That's a blessing." or "I can't pay for gymnastics and piano lesson this month because money is tight, but we have enough. That's a blessing". Some people walk around considering the same option for children - but not in the QF version from what I have seen from reading these posts.
I only know what people have shared on this site about QF, and since it's not part of my upbringing, I don't feel comfortable about directing my next comment specifically to that concept, but I did have a thought. My mother always points out on tv who is Jewish. She feels the need to say "oh, she is jewish" or "he is half jewish" or "he/she converted", or the ongoing comment of her saying "he/she is jewish" - and I reply NO he/she is not - and her "yes he/she is"... then going to look it up to prove something is so strange to me.
I think to myself... do other people watch tv and say "he/she is Methodist", "he/she is Baptist", "he/she used to be Catholic, but now converted to born again Christianity"... do other people take such stock in their religion that it must be announced at every possible moment for purpose?
This led me to wonder... was the QF movement meant to start this kind of thinking? The thinking that everyone should know exactly what to believe, and to make sure that it is expected of each person who is led to believe this, that no one else can be right? I'm certainly not being critical of the concept, but it was a thought that crossed my mind last night. In addition, why is that promotional thinking necessary?
I looked at it this way... if you have 2 children, and you tell your 2 children that the grass is bright green, they learn to understand that no matter what - the grass is bright green. If you have 8 children, and you tell your 8 children that the grass is bright green, is the grass less green because only 2 kids were told it was green, verses 8 kids? Are you less of a parent/person because you only raised 2 children to learn about the bright green grass and not 8 children? Or if the neighbor kids come over and say the grass is green but not bright green, is it more important to have 8 children tell them they are wrong verses 2 children? Can we have light green grass, and short grass and tall grass, and not identify the value of the grasses color without having creating a problem to just enjoy the grass as a whole?
Does having more children who you love and enrich sustain you as a better person/parent in the eyes of your religion, verses having 2 children who you love and enrich? Isn't the ideal to make sure all children grow up to be awesome and productive adults in society, and the number of children you raise not be as important?
I guess it comes down to you version of if it's how many you choose to have/raise, verses how many you are comfortable having/raising because for everyone person the answer is different. No one should think less of anyone for having 1 child or 3 children verses 6 or more kids. If they are healthy and happy, that by itself is a blessing - and should be enough!!!
Mollie
I find the question of when or how our own desires come into play to be intriguing. I have seen many who labor under (and I'm sure I've succumb to it at times) the conviction that anything they *want* therefore *must* be bad--there's that "heart is deceitful and desperately wicked" bit. Of course there's also God granting us the desires of our heart . . . but that must be *only* after we've achieved an implausible stage of spiritual maturity so that we only want those "truly spiritual" things. (Funny, that's not what it *says*.)
ReplyDeleteI'm inclined to think that all the things we ultimately want are in fact good things. Sometimes we want to get there in the wrong ways, but our desires are not thereby automatically suspect.
I remember how shocking it was to me to read of people who actually enjoyed being pregnant--or who had five or six or seven kids because they really liked having that many kids around, and then stopped deliberately. It was actually freeing to realize that it didn't have to be a matter of obligation, one way or the other. I don't feel that way about it. I love kids, but in smaller doses. Pregnancy is torture for me. (I say that without exaggeration.)
I want to be able to enjoy my children's childhood, to still have the energy and time for my husband, to operate in the abstract way that is natural for me instead of the highly-hands-on way necessary to keep a large family of small children operational. Are those bad desires?
Now, there's the flip side, of how do you deal with it when your desires are delayed or seemingly thwarted by the vagaries of life. *That's* where trusting God comes in.
i am so excited that you have dedicated this blog to this thoughtful discussion of such a topic, thank you sara!!
ReplyDeleteone thing i notice as a common thread is "listening to ourselves". the world and those in Christ are fooled by this, i admit to it myself! i am slowly learning to rely on God's plan for my life! listening to His will and praying that He will change my heart to match His no matter what. IT IS HARD!! but i know that our family(not matter what size) will benefit from that! this being said, right now we are not planning to add to the children we already have...my heart is not full, but i follow my husband and trust the Lord to interven in his heart or my body ;) or change my desires. this is the stage i am in and so very pleased to being listening to everyone's views, stages, and understanding of God's call on them!!
sorry, i want you all to be able to access my blog too, i have looked at some of yours ;) not great at tech stuff so here it is
ReplyDeletewww.justlikejunecleaver.blogspot.com