Please keep commenting -- your thoughts are very useful as I'm figuring out what I'll write about next. Only a few more posts and then I'll be (haha) done.
There's a fine line between "trusting God" and "trusting I know how my body works."
The Quiverfull philosophy says that God sends children as blessings, and that we shouldn't take any steps to prevent pregnancy. Wanting to control your fertility for any reason shows a lack of trust in God. As with many philosophies, this one looks good in theory, but when you run it in reality you discover some bugs.
As you find out after your first baby is born, there's no such thing as natural birth control. Breastfeeding suppresses your cycle for a while, but it's different with each woman. Some women don't get their cycles back for a year and a half after childbirth. Some women find themselves pregnant a month after giving birth. My cycle usually starts back somewhere around five to seven months after the baby is born. (I got pregnant with Stuart with Addie was eight months old.)
Furthermore, there's no obvious indication that you've ovulated until after the fact. I don't often take issue with the way God designed things, but seriously, that particular area needed a little more tweaking.
And our bodies aren't machines. They don't all work predictably. Some of them plain don't work right at all. If it's possible to be infertile, isn't it possible to be too fertile? A friend suggested that the use of plastics and artificial hormones in our food has affected fertility so that women ovulate more frequently than they should. There might be something in that, but there have always been women whose bodies don't seem to rest and recover between children like they should.
Given the wild variables from one mother to the next, it's unhelpful at best to say that we shouldn't take steps to avoid pregnancy. Sure, God opens and closes the womb -- but you don't get pregnant unless you're having sex while you're ovulating. Knowing how something works doesn't invalidate how God works.
Children are more than just the joining of a sperm and egg, more than just genetic variations of their parents. They're new souls. Obviously the decision to prevent or allow one of these new souls is weighty. But does God ever indicate that we don't have any say in that decision?
-- SJ
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"But does God ever indicate that we don't have any say in that decision?"
ReplyDelete1. We got married didn't we! :-)
2. 1 Cor. 5:5 implies that we do too... Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you becaus of your lack of self-control.
and... Mark 13:17-18 But WOE to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And PRAY that your flight may not be in winter.
I believe that many women's cycles have been missed up and accelerated by the pollutants in our culture, in the last days and we need to WOE. That does NOT mean stop or seek after our own pleasures and limit children. I would still have as many children as the Lord would allow (I have 10) but I would have had them more spaced out and I believe they and I would have been more healthy because of it. I have had cancer and I have witness many other mothers with many children spaced very close having health problems also. This I believe IS NOT IN GOD'S WILL. There is a balance. I would not classify myself as "extreme quiverfull" any longer even though I would still have as many children as the Lord would allow...
On the flip side. Many women are looking for excuses... and I want to clarify because I don't want to give them any. :-) The Lord knows the heart. Maybe their kids are brats and they don't want to be with them and don't want any more brats!! :-) "He that spares the rod HATES his son." I would think this also include those not yet born too... Having children requires discipline of the children and of ourselves. Many instead of dealing with the character issues of the children and of ourselves want to turn the blessings off. How sad! If we are disciplining our children well they are a delight to be around.
I think what's missing in our society today is REAL LIFE COMMUNITY of older women. This isn't one day a week Sunday morning fellowship I'm talking about. In the N.T. the brothers and sisters bore each other's burdens and helped each other on this road. I think many women feel alone out there and it shouldn't be this way, nor does it have to be. We've believed a lie if we think it does! It's available to us if we will look in the right places... Jesus was born in a humble stable... He was trying to tell us something... Margaret Bullock
I have read heard arguments from some of the Quiverfull mindset that strongly encourage frequent and exclusive breastfeeding (at least every 3 hrs during the day and every 4 at night) in order to try to keep up the "natural birth control" for longer. While I don't at all have a problem with breastfeeding, I have a few problems with this argument:
ReplyDelete1) I need SLEEP, and if my newborn wants to sleep 6-7 hrs in a row, I am NOT about to wake her up!! (Perhaps some would say I'm selfish on this, but what good is a mother who is too exhausted to function?)
2) As you say, this doesn't work for everyone!! So far I have gotten my cycle back within 2 months of each baby. This could be partly because of the mentality of reason #1 (my newborns have all very nicely slept long stretches like that very quickly), or because of emergency circumstances with both my first two that forced me to partially bottle-feed for a while, but I have a feeling it probably would have happened that way anyway. I have at least one sister who was nursing up a storm and still got her cycle back right away every time!
3) Even NFP people will tell you this is supposed to work until 6 months postpartum.
4) Perhaps most importantly, isn't this another way of trying to manipulate your body into spacing your children, i.e., "controlling the womb"? If you have to make a concerted effort to keep waking up 2-3 times a night with your baby for however long you think it would be nice not to be pregnant, isn't that just another (though less effective) form of birth control?
Anyway... I think your last paragraph brings up another, more important point. I went on a subject search through the Bible a while ago to see what it had to say about children, and the overwhelming feeling I came away with was this: children are a gift from God and they certainly can be a blessing, but they can also be a curse if they are like the "foolish son" we all know from Proverbs. Parents are admonished to do what they can to point their children to the Truth, and though not every child will follow their upbringing, it makes it much more likely that they will not turn out as "fools." But parents who have so many children that they start burning out are going to be less effective in raising them. What good is it to keep producing more new souls if we are not going to be able to teach and nourish them properly?
Some, like my parents, were given the desire and the capacity to raise lots of children in a God-honoring fashion. I think that's GREAT!! But I don't know that all of us have that gift. And I think it's time that some of us quit focusing so much on the importance of multiplying and start focusing more on the importance of raising up the children we have in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. (Okay, I'll shut up now. :-))
Does God ever give us a task that he doesn't give us the ability to do it in HIS strength?
ReplyDeleteGood thoughts Jessica.
ReplyDeleteI think God designed a woman's body to work perfectly. Just one problem: Sin. (In the collective, not individual sense.) It messed everything up. And the Quiverfull argument if taken all the way suggests we shouldn't fight cancer because God gave it to us, right? He designed our bodies perfectly so He must know something we don't.
To the last commenter: God will give those who truly trust Him strength to handle whatever life brings them. But He also gave us dominion over the earth and imparted us with wisdom. If we plunge ahead with something foolish, we usually have to pay natural consequences.
But then theology plays a part here. An extreme Calvinist assumes God is manipulating circumstances. I believe God designed an amazing universe and gave us free will. He is involved in our lives, but politely. He wants a relationship with us, not to control us like robots. I think He enjoys the conversation many of us have with Him about our family size.
But I have to believe that there is some reason why Scripture tells us that God told Adam to tend the garden, not simply let it grow where it would.
Children are more than just the joining of a sperm and egg, more than just genetic variations of their parents. They're new souls.
ReplyDelete*** In a religious state, the last sentence is valid.
In a scientific sence, it is not (again, take the religion out of it). We are all science experiments, parasites in a human host, a form of DNA combined to become a living breathing mammal that needs to be guided by the former, as we do not have the self guided instincts that other animals have. If we are not fed, we die. In the wild, you find your own food to stay alive.
I always looked at my pregnancy in stages, First as a embroy, then a fetus, it was never a baby to me until I decided to keep my pregnancy full term, and even then I knew the weekly stages of growth (as at 11 weeks, you don't see a baby, you see combined cells that have no eyes, so to me that's not a baby - that's my personal opinion). Maybe I needed not to get too attached until I knew for sure if I was going to have - or attempt - a full term pregnancy. Maybe I am just not brought up to believe that the instant the sperm and the egg meet, it's a child that should be brought to life. Regardless of my choosing to see things in a non-religious format, when I was 17 weeks prgenant and I knew the "baby" had no medical issues that were obvious and the "baby" was healthy, I decided to become a single mom - and attempt - to have a full term pregnancy.
Even then it wasn't a "baby" until he was born and I could say " there's my baby", although I always said "my boy" as to separate the fact he was his own person, and not a formal "baby". Obviously, that's me, and how I looked at "life" from/in the womb. I took prvention to not become pregnant, I'm glad I did, and when the protection was not strong enough to keep that single sperm from reaching my lone egg that should have not even been able to be fertile - (you can get pregnant on your period, I am still amazed at that fact - almost 9 year old child later)- I still find to be a scientific event, more than a religious one.
Avoiding pro life and pro choice chatter, I firmly believe it is a choice to decide whether you do, or do not, become pregnant, and if you are pregnant, if you do or do not decide to stay pregnant. It is a choice, whether you believe it is a god-given choice, or a god-let-me-make-my-own-decision choice, it is a choice.
In my .02...
Mollie (who doesn't live acorss the street from Sara)
My statement wasn't a pro-life one, but a statement of fact. Whether you say a child "begins" at conception or at birth, a child is a new person, not just a copy of its parents. Your child who began and grew as an accidental joining of sperm and egg is his own person, with his own thoughts and his own mind -- and his own soul, that part of us that's separate from mere instinct and intellect.
ReplyDeleteKeeping that fact in mind makes the decision to have or not have more children a serious one.
I also object to the idea that an unborn child is a "parasite." It's being nurtured and nourished in a part of the body specifically for that purpose. It doesn't attach itself where it doesn't belong.
And now I have to go get the pizza out of the oven because my three-year-old still requires me to feed her. :)
-- SJ
I'm getting to the end of my original outline, so I feel like I can pause and acknowledge some comments.
ReplyDeleteJessica, good point that nursing your child more frequently to prevent your cycle's returning is -- what do you know! -- an attempt to control your fertility. Even Quiverfull has to acknowledge that there's a such thing as too many blessings at one time.
Margaret, thanks so much for commenting! Your opinion is valuable, seeing as you're a mother of ten who once was deeper into the Quiverfull thinking. I would like to know more of what you think of the subject.
It's probably a personal reaction, but I don't regard the verses you mention as pertaining to family size, even though they mention pregnancy and intercourse. As far as I know, the Bible doesn't refer directly to birth control or family size AT ALL. Understand, I come from a background where Bible verses were used to justify positions on everything from what to wear to what music to listen to ("The sheep know the voice of the Shepherd" was somehow proof against rock music), so I'm cautious about accepting any proof texts to back up any position.
Rachelle - Yes, God did want Adam to tend the Garden, didn't He? And yes, Margaret, He wants us to nurture our children's characters and souls. Both of which certainly should be part of our thinking on this subject.
I'd love to say more but -- ha! -- I've got kids to take care of!
-- SJ
This is an interesting article that goes through some of the common Biblical proof texts and other arguments: http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/05/24/nlq-faq-the-bible-birth-control/
ReplyDeleteI haven't double-checked the passage, but I was particularly struck by the argument about the Curse including an increased number of pregnancies, as it was new to me (and I've heard most of the arguments).
I also think it is curious that childbearing is the only major life decision in which it is considered appropriate to take a sort of "Russian Roulette" approach rather than using one's common sense/wisdom/stewardship and individual communication with God, given that it so deeply implicates the lives of others as well as our own. But it's so hard to argue with the "trusting God" argument... no offense to any Reformed people reading here, but to me it's like accusing people who believe in free will of denying God's sovereignty -- a false dichotomy really.
Whether you say a child "begins" at conception or at birth, a child is a new person, not just a copy of its parents.
ReplyDelete*** Sometimes my child is JUST like his Dad, infact when they are together they share the same thoughts (I swear) it's like a clone of the same person, although my child is much cuter than his Father... =)
Hope I didn't offend you with my comments above, when I was pregnant I was teatsed all the time that I was the host to a human parasite, and I was also teased about the "mollie chad" verses the political hanging chad that had been a 2000 political issue in th news. I was teasted about alot of stuff, probably to make up for the fact I was pregnant and that didn't go over well with my immediate family - but I had my own digs back so it was all good.
In any case, as my previous posts have shown, I don't believe that more is necessarily better, child wise, if ''you'' (the generic you) are not in a position to, or of interest to, handle such. Whether you are proactive in preventing pregnancy, or just choose not to engage in sexual actions to make sure that it's safer to not get pregnant, shouldn't be questioned by the suggestion you are a bad person.
People know what they can handle in their own lives, money wise, work wise, family wise, etc. It's very acceptable to say "I'm done", and not have to explain yourself. Or you shouldn't feel the need too, in my opinion.
Mollie
I hate hearing this stated as "trusting God with our family," because it closes off the discussion. No matter how nicely they say it, if someone believes that the only way to trust God with your family size is to pay no attention to the potential consequences of your actions, than anyone who does otherwise is automatically less spiritual and less obedient.
ReplyDeleteIt's like saying the only way to trust God with your finances is to quit your job and see how God provides. Or the only way to trust God with your future is to not make any plans at all. God may lead specific people to do these things at specific times, or He may bring things about that we are not expecting, but people can also be trusting Him while working at a job, making plans, and prayerfully determining whether now is or is not a good time to add to their family.
What QOC said. :-)
ReplyDeleteQueen of Carrots - 2 thumbs up!
ReplyDeleteMollie